Forgiveness.
I believe in forgiveness. However, where do you draw the line? If someone does something wrong/bad… and it happens multiple times - do you continue to forgive?? Yes, I believe you do have to continue to forgive - but what do you do about the repentance? Do you break ties with someone who continually screws up?
I wonder what I should say to this person. Of course, at the moment isn’t a good time to talk to them- because I’m not in a good mood and I don’t like talkin’ serious when I’m in a bad mood. I don’t want to say things I really shouldn’t say. I know, or think, this person will screw up, again. I mean, track records do mean something, I think. I am seriously struggling with this. Ya see, I’ve ask this person straight-up a few times… many times, actually - if they were “havin’ issues, again” and they’d plainly say no. So, not only did they screw up - they’ve been lying to me. Nothing makes my blood boil more so than a liar.
I think what bothers me most is this person said they were a believer and had been saved. I wonder, if this person is really saved - would this person be screwin’ up so much? Then I wonder if I’m out of line for even thinkin’ about it. I did notice a change in this person - a while back, when they said they became saved - but it appears it was short lived. I could do the same things this person is/has been doing but I have no desire. I know right from wrong and never could “commit” myself to doing something I knew was wrong. I praise God for that because I know it’s through Him that I am strong enough to not do things I shouldn’t.
I do forgive. I will forgive. I just cannot seem to forget. No matter how hard I try, how long it’s been, or how much I pray I-j-u-s-t-c-a-n-’-t-s-e-e-m-t-o-f-o-r-g-e-t. I’m hurt by this. I’m affected. I’m bothered. I’m shaking and I don’t know why. I’m let down. I’m mad. I’m very upset. I just do not understand some people and their actions.
Yeah, this is vague but I respect the privacy of others lives and didn’t really want to go to deep into the subject. I just needed to express my thoughts on the matter… I typed this well before it posted - so I hope my mood is better by the time you read this.
July 28th, 2006 at 12:22 am
This is a tough problem. If this is a family member then you really have to try and work things out. Your family is yours forever. If this is a friend, then you might want to tell them that you forgive them but it might be time to put some distance between the two of you for a while. Good luck and keep praying for answers as what to do.
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Reply from TNChick: Thanks Lucy. I have been praying… and will continue.
July 28th, 2006 at 1:38 am
Oh sweet one, I wish I know how to handle issues like that myself…I do forgive all the time, but sometimes it really hurts big time - especially if you are getting hurt by another Christian and when it was your best friend :sad:.
But I think you are doing the right thing - to continue to forgive - I know it is hard, really hard.
July 28th, 2006 at 2:15 am
First off, I consider you in the category of religion playing a “positive” role for both you and your Family. I support that 100%.
Now with regard to being “saved”… I have always deemed religion as a cop out to dealing with things via false forgiveness.
I think answers lye within. Not inside a fucking book.
Sounds to me like this person simply doesn’t know who he/she is yet.
It’s not *your* problem IMHO.
Simple as that.
Hugs.
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Reply from TNChick: Yes, I think you know I’m not some religious freak but I am a believer and God does matter to me. Thanks for saying you support that. I know you and I are total opposites with some of our views. When I referenced the “saved” part that was only because I saw a different in them during that time - but now, they are back to the old person, ya know? I think they just are lost… in more than one way. I don’t think the answers are in the book, I agree they are within. The only thing is, it isn’t really my problem, like you said - but it is part my problem because I am involved. Thanks for the hugs. I needed it. =)
July 28th, 2006 at 3:30 am
It’s really very difficult to forgive someone who has really hurt you so much. Maybe when the time comes I may do forgive that someone. As they say if Jesus can forgive so can we. I’m sorry but I’m not Jesus nor am I God. I really don’t have the power to forgive that easily. It takes a lot before someone can make me real angry but when that someone does, it will take him a lot too for me to forgive him/her.
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Reply from TNChick: It seems after I forgive… it’s time to start the process all over again. :/
July 28th, 2006 at 5:27 am
There’s a time for forgive, and there’s a time to call someone to account for their actions. When you’ve forgiven the same actions repeatedly, it’s time to call them to account, if it’s someone that has any kind of significance to you.
Depending on the person and the transgression, I have no problem cutting ties; forgiveness is kind hearted, but credibility matters, too.
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Reply from TNChick: Credibility does matter, a lot, I think - which is why this is so hard for me to deal with.
July 28th, 2006 at 7:41 am
I know exactly what you are going through. I just went through this (and still am). I can write you an e-mail later to fill you in.. but it mostly the same as your ‘vauge’ refrence (which was excellently described).
I have no answer for you (relating to forgiveness), because I am working on one myself. But I can tell you that there are somethings in this life that you just do not require, and being constantly disappointed and lied too are two of them. These sorts of people can change.. but rarely do. When the leopard changes his spots, they come back with an appology and no strings. so I would let them go.
Nothing says you should forgive a person that very second or you will die. nothing. You need time to proccess and you need time to let your own hurt mend. an empty forgivance is almost worse than what ever the person did.. because it is dishonest, and just not you.
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Reply from TNChick: I know they say time heals.. and I think it does. It’s the dishonesty that bothers me, most. I also agree that peopel rarely change yet I can’t imagine breaking ties. That’s why I’m struggling so hard. I always repeating in my head “Why do people have to be so stupid!”…
July 28th, 2006 at 7:57 am
I don’t think anyone ‘forgets’. I know I certainly don’t (or can’t) I just can not do that. I also think it’s a process. Someone loses your respect by lying, cheating etc.. it takes a heck of a long time to regain that trust (if ever). So for me, it’s a case of ‘once broken, forever shattered’ and that’s just the way I am.
Liars are the worst ever. You can lock up a thief, you can put a murderer behind bars, but there’s nothing at all you can do with a liar…
But looking at it another way.. Perhaps this person doesn’t want to fail you? so he/she lets you think all is okay.. maybe a little word in his/her ear.. just might loosen them up to reveal all?
Good luck
Mandy
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Reply from TNChick: Yes, broken and forever shattered, that’s it, exactly!
July 28th, 2006 at 10:03 am
The Bible says to forgive. There is nothing in there about forgetting. You can forgive them but you don’t have to trust them or even associate with them again.
The only exception is in marriage and even then, if the keep committing the transgression, you are not required to trust them.
I don’t know what your situation is, but if it is serious enough to upset you and your lifestyle, then forgive and move on.
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Reply from TNChick: It is serious enough to upset me and I just am not sure how to deal with what I’m dealt. It’s tough.
July 28th, 2006 at 10:41 am
Forgiving is one thing, forgetting is another entirely.
Yes you can forgive someone’s indisgressions but how do you forget them ?
Answer = you can’t.
So you learn a lesson instead. Sometimes it’s a hard one but you realize that the person in question is just going to keep screwing up and maybe it’s best to distance yourself a little so you don’t get hurt again.
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Reply from TNChick: I agree, OG. I’m just tired of being hurt.
July 28th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
I’ve questioned this myself. Does forgiving mean setting yourself up for the same scenario time after time. Some say yes, but I don’t know how I can do that and live with myself.
I beileve you can forgive someone and keep your distance. Some Christians will say this is not complete forgiveness. Be that as it may, it is sometimes all I”m capable of.
Peace,
Traci
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Reply from TNChick: I can offer forgivness but it’s hard to gain my trust back and I’m always leary. Forgiving takes time, for me. But, in the long run, I’ve always forgave.
July 28th, 2006 at 1:33 pm
that’s a pretty old issue isn’t it? god, love, forgiveness, they are all closely related. i think you have a pretty good grasp on the whole issue, you just wanted to vent a little. xmichra is right, time is what is needed most, forgiving and forgetting can be just as hard, do you love them, all people sin, even ones who have been saved, some in different way than others. if you believe in the aspect of what would jesus do? he would forgive, it will make you stronger in the long run. maybe you should let thgem know how you feel about it and they will help you make up your mind. sorry to go on and on but it reminded me of my own problems with someone, you might have cleared it up for me a little.
now something lighter, You’ve been “Tagged” come to my site to see how to play, thanks.
http://chucklodown.blogspot.com
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Reply from TNChick: I have confronted. Every time. Ugh. I’ll come check out the tag. I’m about to do a system restore - so it may be a bit….
July 28th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
i’m so sorry that the mistakes of another are causing you so much pain. i thought i’d just add my own religious opinions to the mix; in my mind, even being saved does not prevent someone from being a sinner; we all sin and fall short of perfection, no matter how we try. god forgives us, and we must work hard to forgive each other.
i’m not wishing to condemn; i have been in your place before and i know how hard it is. it always helps me to remember my own shortcomings, sins, and imperfections. i am then more able to forgive and love again.
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Reply from TNChick: I wasn’t saying a saved person isn’t a sinner.. I am fully aware that everyone sins. Even me… I was implying that in the past these “mistakes” were made before this person was saved… and considerin’ the type of mistake that was made… I wouldn’t expect it from someone who was saved. I’m truly in shock, I guess. I know I would never do it.
July 28th, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Those that hurt with a malicious intent are virtually inpossible to forgive, as it will always be in their hearts.
July 28th, 2006 at 5:53 pm
There’s a fine line between forgiving and enabling, something that I learned the hard way. Boundaries have to be set and respected in order to have a good relationship with trust. Doesn’t sound like that’s happening in this case.
July 28th, 2006 at 9:28 pm
If I said I know exactly how you feel, would you believe me? Because I do. I have gone up and down this exact road with someone and it comes to a point where you have to draw a line. I know for me I had to let them go, they were never going to change and nothing I did to help them was going to change things, so no matter the hurt they caused, I finally had to forgive them, but and it’s a big BUT, I will never forget what they did to me. I had to let God deal with them, I couldn’t do it anymore. Just remember, until they decide to change, you can’t do anything for them. Hope you are doing better now.
July 28th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
In regards to what you said about if someone was truly saved, would they still be screwing up…the answer would be yes. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. This person may be a believer, and still not have a personal relationship with Jesus, this person may have such low self esteem that they just think that they will never be able to do the right thing.
Now, with that being said, God never intended for us to be doormats either. There are some relationships that we just cannot continue to be in, though we can continue to pray for that person as prayer is still supporting them. Yes, we are supposed to forgive again and again and again, but we don’t have to constantly set ourselves up to take another fall for this person.
Just my two cents!
July 29th, 2006 at 12:00 am
Oh boy can I relate to this one. It would be a novel. Forgiveness is work. I know with my mom, she was a very bitter woman, who was abussive, and worst of all, said things I will never forget. I have forgiven her over and over. She died 2.5 years ago, and I STILL have to forgive her. When a memory comes back, when I find myself reacting to something or someone as she would have, (and I vowed I’d NEVER be like her), I can get mad at her and I have to forgive all over again. Often when a Believer would do something that will make me question if they are a Believer or not, it’s either we follow Scripture and tell them where they offended, or not be judgemental, and know God will deal with it. Yes, this is easier said than done. And . . . we may have to forgive for the same thing in our heart, many times over.
I am sorry you are going through this pain. I understand it from my childhood with my parents, to Christian friends who have not followed Scripture and hurt deeply, which I have gone through just recently. Keep your focus on Jesus. He WON’T fail us!
July 29th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
You can forgive, that was what God did, but you can not be without anger, God showed that. Can you forgive again and again? God did…mistakes are made…stupidty is a curse…love and compassion are constant.
People make mistakes, good or bad, we watch, we give, we cry, we cuss, we hurt, we move on…
B.D.
July 31st, 2006 at 11:33 am
Well, we do get saved, and we are suppose to change the way we use to be and be for god. But we are only flesh and we will make daily mistakes. All we can do is learn from the mistake and pray. Its up to us to change the old life we had and use the new life we make to make us and the others around us to be god like in our lives so that others can see we are for Jesus and the way he did for others to follow him. I hope that this helped
July 31st, 2006 at 4:30 pm
Seems like this is different for each individual, and sometimes you get to the point where you have to give them some “tough love” or else they’ll never change. I’ve had a few family members get to this point, and they don’t change their behaviors until people start backing up what they’re saying and don’t give in. It’s hard, though, there’s no question about that.